podcast 040: what flourishing actually asks of us
In this episode, Deb sits down with Jen Marr, CEO of Showing Up and author of Lifting Up: The Transforming Power of Supportive Leadership, to talk about what it really takes to lead people well when life is messy, work is relentless, and uncertainty is no longer the exception.
“Empathy and compassion are nouns. They are feelings. And so in order to help someone, you need an action, you need a verb.” – Jen Marr
Deb’s conversation with Jen sits at the exact intersection where modern leadership tends to fall apart: we say we value empathy, but we often confuse feeling it with knowing how to act on it. Jen’s work is rooted in a hard truth that most workplaces still resist. Support is not a “soft skill,” and human flourishing is not a perk. In a world shaped by burnout, fragmentation, and rising loneliness, leaders are often the closest thing people have to a functioning support system, and that reality changes what leadership is responsible for.
What’s quietly radical here is Jen’s insistence on support without rescuing and care without lowered standards. She names the awkward zone that keeps well intentioned leaders stuck, then offers a practical way through it, from micro-moment skills to fast, frequent check ins that build trust and accountability at the same time. Underneath the entire episode is a challenge to the reflex many leaders default to. Outsource the human part to HR, push through, stay “professional,” and hope it all works out. Jen makes the case that this is exactly how cultures drift, and how people quietly break.
Key Highlights:
The difference between feeling empathy and doing something useful with it. Jen draws a sharp line that changes how you lead the next hard conversation.
The awkward zone framework that explains why support so often misses the mark, even when intentions are good.
The “barbell of care” and why self-care plus clinical care still fails if the everyday human support piece is missing.
A statistic that lands like a warning sign: for some employees, work is their only real support system.
Why supportive leadership raises the bar instead of lowering it, and how accountability actually becomes easier when trust is real.
The 3-by-30 Takeaway
Once a week, ask one person you lead a question that has nothing to do with work, then remember the answer and follow up later.
Practice Jen’s “2–10” behaviors: put the screen down, make eye contact, say the person’s name, and assume there’s a “10” of potential behind whatever you’re seeing today.
Replace the monthly agenda-heavy 1:1 with fast, frequent check-ins. Short enough to be sustainable, consistent enough to build trust.
About Our Guest:
Jen Marr works at the intersection of leadership, disruption, and the real human cost of uncertainty. Her perspective is shaped not only by research, but by proximity to crisis; both as someone in need of support and as someone responsible for helping others find it. Through her work with Showing Up and her writing in Lifting Up, Jen makes a practical case for something many workplaces still treat as optional: leaders must know how to guide humans through hard moments without freezing, fixing, or disappearing.
Connect with Jen Marr:
Learn more about Jen Marr on her website
Jen Marr on LinkedIn
Learn more about Showing Up on their website
Purchase Jen’s book, Lifting Up
About The HX Collective:
The HX Collective explores the human experience through three lenses: work, relationships and self, through raw, authentic conversations rooted in human-centered design. Each episode offers gripping stories, thought-provoking discussion, and concrete tools that help you rethink your relationship with distress and strengthen your whole human experience.
